Fnord

Second mini-rant!

Stunlocking. Have you’ve ever been stunlocked in a game and thought “Wow, I’m really glad that I can’t do anything right now, other than what my character’s HP go down?”. I bet you have not. Stunlocking is one of those things that should never be happening to the player. I think it’s perfectly fine for the player to be able to do it to the enemy (as long as the game’s actually balanced around you being able to do it, and as long as that enemy is not another player), but getting stunlocked in games is just frustrating.
With stunlocking I mean any situation where you’re losing (most of your) control of your character, and the enemy can repeatedly apply this effect to your character, with no realistic way of you preventing this or breaking out of this state. Imagine fighting an enemy wizard in an RPG, and the enemy wizard casts “freeze” on you. Freeze lasts for 3 seconds, and during this time you can’t do anything, other than possibly rotate on the spot. So you wait 3 seconds, and then the enemy wizard casts freeze again. You’re stuck again, without the ability to do anything. Now repeat this until your character is dead, or least where it’s lost a significant portion of its health. There’s no way to avoid this effect once it hit the first time, as you’re unable to move out of the way of any freeze projectiles in time. So sure, you could have avoided the first freeze effect, but none of the following ones.

Most developers are sensible enough to put in some way to avoid this in their games. You might get a few invulnerability frames, the game might not allow another freeze effect to be applied right away, enemy wizards might only be allowed to cast freeze once every 20 seconds, and it will never have more than 2 wizards in any given encounter, and so on. But then there are those that don’t. I was playing a bit of Gurumin: A Monstrous Adventure (it’s not a great game… Imagine the PSP-era Ys (same developers) but far more clumsily made), and an enemy appeared. It hit me, and pushed me back, into another enemy, which in turn hit me and pushed me back into the first. Repeat. Yes, I was juggled between two enemies. This is the kind of thing you want to avoid happening in your games. Secret of Mana is even worse in this regard. If you’re hit your character can get knocked down. If you’re hit when knocked down your character can have another “knockdown” effect applied to it. Which results in your character being knocked down for a few seconds, then the animation for getting up plays, then as soon as that animation plays, another knockdown animation plays. So yes, the game stacks these effects, and will play them one after another. It’s the main reason why I don’t like Secret of Mana (the other reasons are: The screen only scrolls when you’re very close to the edge, making it so that you can very easily get surprised attacked by an enemy, the companion AI is awful and they get stuck in things, and you’re not allowed to go far from your companions. And then there’s how spells just stops the game. Oh and the inventory system is awful…. okay so I really dislike Secret of Mana, but this was not meant to be a mini-rant about how bad that game is!)
I don’t really see how one can defend the player getting stun-locked. If the goal was to add challenge, then there are far less frustrating and more interesting ways of doing that (heck, just up the damage the enemies deal. Dying fast in games is more fun than slowly watching your characters health drain without you being able to do anything about it). Yet I keep running into games where the player can get stun-locked (or fear-locked or whatever the game wants to call that particular status effect, they’re functionally more or less the same).

There are a couple of related issues to this, like when you’re stuck in a defensive loop, and can’t do anything other than heal yourself, or you’ll lose, but if you don’t do anything else, you can’t prevent the enemy from damaging you. This primarily happens in JRPGs, and to some degree in Wizardry clones (although the later usually have large enough parties and other ways of dealing with this issue).

Cece09

Wasn’t that long ago it happened to me in gears of war. You get stunned when you get hit, so people can easily hit you once and a shoot then you’re dead. Or the famous let me hit you once then again because I cant aim even with you point blank in front of me like a noob. Or how I experienced was getting hit once, then twice then a 3rd time until I went down since I could not move at all.

Omg I just read it after writing that and that gurumin story is basically what happened. I got hit once letting 2 more enemies come up to also gang hit me and this was on easy mode…

Plus I totally had that defensive loop happen plenty of time of just barely being able to heal self for it all to go. So just a content loop of please just miss a couple of times! Mainly on ffx it happened with reviving and going down. I’ve also had it before where it’s just too evenly matched. I still remember in my wow days where I got challenged to a fight by this healer while I was paladin. We spent over 5 minutes attacking and healing, we just couldn’t get close to killing each other since they were to weak but had great healing and I was underleveled compared to them so I also couldn’t do a dent big enough and fast enough and since i could heal myself I also didn’t have to worry. I can at least say it wasn’t a boring fight

Fnord

Were you playing WoW back before the first expansion? Because back then, Paladins really hit like a wet noodle! People would joke about how duels between paladins could last for days, until one player would finally fall asleep

Cece09

No I don’t know when I played since my step dad got it for me to play it with him but I know there was a bunch of expansions at least. Searched it up for 1st one and I was 7 so defo no. I was barely just starting out on the xbox during that time. I was just very weak and underleveled compared to them but not so much that I also couldn’t heal myself at the same time. I managed to win but it did go on for a lot longer then others had

devonrv

okay so I really dislike Secret of Mana

Same here. I never understood how that game ended up becoming so revered. It’s not like you can say that the game is simply outdated or anything like that; A Link to the Past came out nearly two years earlier and got the top-down-action mechanics right, so what happened here?

Fnord

I played Secret of Mana when it was still relatively new, and I disliked it back then already. So yeah, it’s really not about the games age. There are many games that I dislike where I can at least see why someone would like them, but Secret of Mana’s flaws are so glaring, I really don’t get it.

UlverHausu

Well i was playing wingdiver on EDF, completely stops you on your tracks. You dont get knocked down but takes movement away from you
it’s not the base damage that gets you, instead getting under fire knowing not how to leave, which this game does a lot.

Lengray

Not quite stunlocking but I gave up at the end of STALKER Shadow of Chernobyl because the radiation would just kill me wherever I went.
I deleted the game from my Steam library and watched the ending on Youtube.

Fnord

I beat that game about 2 years ago, and I don’t remember the radiation being such a big issue there. But I ran a mod called S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Complete, which improved hte game in a lot of ways, so it might have made radiation more “visible”.

Lengray

Could be so. Glad to hear you managed to play it all the way through.

Lucky Thirteen

Oh yes, stunlocking is annoying as hell!
On a somewhat related note:

Which results in your character being knocked down for a few seconds, then the animation for getting up plays, then as soon as that animation plays, another knockdown animation plays

It annoys me when my character gets locked in an attack animation! Especially if it’s some flashy, relatively long one and you are vulnerable during that time with no way to cancel the animation (for example to dodge an incoming attack). It’s ok when some powerful ability has a long animation as a sort of trade-off, but when it’s regular attacks… ugh.

Fnord

I think you can design a game around longer attack animations, and make attacking more of a risk, but then you really need to be careful with how you design things. Long attack animations + aggressive enemies is generally a bad combination.
Something I dislike more than long attack animations is when you have really short reach with your attack. Unless the game is very lenient with the hitboxes, that can get really frustrating, as you often end up taking hits form touching the enemy’s body when you just want to get into attack range.

Lucky Thirteen

when you have really short reach with your attack.

Oh, yes! That’s also mighty annoying. Also, to some extent, when there’s really short range for prompts, like for example a finisher or a stealth kill, where you have to basicaly be touching the enemy for the prompt to pop up.

Minamimoto

Thank you for bringing my trauma back in my mind when I was six years old and lost to a Bellsprout thanks to Wrap in the first generation of Pokemon. I hated this stupid game so damn much.

Fnord

In general, immobilizing attacks in turnbased games can be really frustrating, particularly single-character ones where you’ve got long-lasting effects (which, if my memory serves, Pokemon had!)

Adelion

If it comforts you, playing Gurumin on Happy Mode solves the stunlocking problem because everything kills you in one hit.

Fnord

Not sure if that would make things better, considering the slightly wonky camera :P